let's talk about the writing thing.

[amelialourdes]

I'm not a writer. I don't consider myself one. I'm not really good at it. I think once upon a time I had an imagination and creativity to write but I think that I've lost it. That said, I've always received pretty high grades when it came to English, grammar, phonics, reading comprehension, language, etc. I consistently wrote in college and graduated with a degree that is based on literary and visual analysis. I think that I have a pretty firm grasp on the English language. That said, when I see badly written fan fiction? I cringe.

Bad fic? It happens. For whatever reason, people make up what they make up without any regard or consideration of the personality of the characters that they're using. They write what they write without care or acknowledgment of their own terrible spelling and grammar. They don't bother with betas because a few fawning reviews means that they have fans and it doesn't matter what the writing looks like.

That bothers me. It bothers me. Every time someone spells something wrong and it's posted for all to see, it makes the angels cry (quote courtesy of Quinn from Glee). Someone on my flist has recently spoken a lot about the writing process and writing in fandoms and her perceptions are dead on. It's refreshing to find someone who's receptive to critique and commentary about her work. Of course, it wasn't always that way. It's never that way in the beginning. In the beginning, I imagine that people do think that they're good writers and for whatever reason (I blame fawning reviews with no critique) aren't receptive to criticism.

Fandom is supposed to be fun, yes? The stories are just stories. They're not up for Pulitzers or even national writing contests. I understand that. This is just a major, major, MAJOR pet peeve of mine that I want to address for myself and to share with anyone who may feel the same. Or! Feel differently. I'm open to both ideas. I'm not having fun if a large chunk of a story doesn't make sense. I sometimes try to look past the errors to just read the story itself but then it's bad characterization that gets to me.

So, if you're a writer or if you're an active reader, what in fandom fanfiction bothers you if you're bothered by anything at all? No specific fandom here. Any fandom at all. What will turn you off of a story? If you're a writer, why do you/would you not accept constructive criticism? Are you open to constructive criticism?

Comments

[suzvoy.livejournal.com]

When it comes to fandom, there's nothing that bugs me more than fic that is full of grammar/spelling mistakes/has clearly not even been read over, never mind betaed, that gets endless raving reviews. This bugs me more than OOCness in their writing, because at least with that I can tell myself that everyone sees the characters differently.

[xloveisinocentx.livejournal.com]

I despise when people are OOC. I just hate it. Grammer and spelling mistakes are right up there as well. I mean...I suck at spelling. but that is what Betas and spell check is for.

[xloveisinocentx.livejournal.com]

And I also totally accept constructive criticism. I'm not the best writer. In fact, I think I pretty much suck, so I will take anything that might make my writing even a little bit better. people who can't take that need to just not write.

[merkuria.livejournal.com]

You asked the worst question. Because I am bothered by many things.

First come those obvious you mentioned - grammar, spelling, obvious need of any sort of proofreading. But that is nothing compared to the loathing I have for 1st person narrative and switching POVs in one fic. The worst is where the POVs are not only switching, but switching every 500 words or so and where that is clearly stated. Just, HATE. In theory 1st person narrative can work, but that's in theory only. Because it never does. I used to think I hated it because it invited Mary Sueism in, but now I realize it is even worse - it invites "I want to be that character" type of mentality authors, and that's beyond bad for me.

Then we have OOCness. To be fair though, I am usually willing to accept some measure of it, especially if the writing/story is good, and provided it is not straying in some ridiculous direction - cue in sugary Brian cooing "baby" and the like. This makes my brain scream.

Then there is clumsy writing, all those "older men" "brunettes" and so on. Then there is describing everything, people, clothes, interiors, feelings, giving me far too graphic sex scenes (because balls and scrotum will never be sexy words in any universe ever). Just let the character show me things, convey, not tell me flat out, because that's not good writing. And a sex scene that relies on physical descriptions only will never be successful. I can't believe people don't see that.

Using whole lines from canon.I know lot of people like it, I don't. I don't enjoy such wink-wink, because that's lame.

Writing scenes where men can't shut up during sex. That just kills the fic right there, because it is not hot, it is fucking ridiculous. Not to mention it's where OCCness sneaks in a lot of the time. Writing dirty talk is a skill yo, and more often than not less is more.

Abusing bold type, italics - moderation is your friend. Most of the time the writing itself should convey what is important, and the reader should be trusted to pick it up. Don't spell everything out for me, I am not a moron.

Generally, there's nothing worse than a sex scene I don't believe in. And yes, I know that's subjective as hell, but there it is.

Digging in further, what bothers me are fics whose authors have no clue why they wrote them in the first place and it shows. By which I mean, they don't know who their characters are, they don't know what story they want to tell - be it plot-driven or character-driven - and we end up with a story that has been written zillion times in the fandom with absolutely nothing new to contribute. Why bother.

LOL. I was provoked :D And of course where I write "you" I don't mean you, jsut got carried away and am too lazy to rephrase everything.

[buzziecat.livejournal.com]

For whatever reason, people make up what they make up without any regard or consideration of the personality of the characters that they're using. They write what they write without care or acknowledgment of their own terrible spelling and grammar. They don't bother with betas because a few fawning reviews means that they have fans and it doesn't matter what the writing looks like.

Your post is well stated and I agree with much of what you say. There seem, however, to be several assumptions in what you say in the following and they concern me. For example, "..without regard or consideration, etc..." Perhaps the writers think they are writing a true 'personality of the characters.' They may not know that others (or some others) don't see it that way. There may be readers who 'hear' the personality in the writing that you think is poorly done. As for betas, I don't know if everyone has a reliable person available to them to take the time and effort (and I've beta-ed some works and it does take time and effort if one is conscientious about doing it) required to beta. It might take someone such as yourself reading the work and thinking it needs some changes to offer your assistance. Some will be greatly appreciative and some will not.

I, as you do, like English. I think I have a fairly good grasp of it. (Thank you Mrs. G in 9th grade.)
Nevertheless, we can all make errors and, I agree with you again, writers would be well advised to be open to helpful suggestions. If one is seen as too critical, of course, people will shy away.
Well, that being said, I hope you won't mind if I point out 3 small things to you.

few fawning reviews means - 'few' and 'reviews' being plural, it should be 'mean.'
to just read the story - split infinitive
then it's bad characterization - correct if you mean that it is the bad characterization that gets to you but incorrect if you mean the characterization of the story (its characterization) with 'its' being possessive. I'm not certain which you meant to convey.

Edited at 2009-09-17 01:57 pm (local)

[rhiannonhero.livejournal.com]

Personally, I'm open to constructive criticism, and I do try to give it consideration because I've learned so much over the years from concrit. However, sometimes I just disagree with the person, and that disagreement doesn't go away. So, I don't mind getting concrit, so long as the person giving it understands that I might not say, "Ah, yes, you're right. I screwed that up entirely." I will always be friendly and polite, though, even in response to concrit.

(By the way, for an example of some concrit and my response to it, this was left on my last long fic: The first one by ZAM. I didn't agree with him about what he disliked, at all, but I appreciated that he was brave enough to tell me about it, even if I was frustrated that he didn't go on to give the rest of the story a chance to see if he eventually felt as other readers did about the "interruption of flow". :) But, yes, I appreciated his criticism for what it was worth, and I seriously considered the validity of it before replying, and determined that it is likely a different strokes for different folks kind of thing.)

As for things that I can't bear to read in a story:

1. "the older man" or "the ad exec" or "the blond man" or whatever. Unnecessary! Please to be stopping that! :D

2. Voice issues and characterization issues. If I can't hear the character say the lines in my head, then there's a problem there for me. (By the way, sometimes I go back and read some of my own stories and cringe thinking, "How could I ever have imagined that character would say that?")

3. Mechanical sex scenes. Tab A in Slot B. Big orgasm. Yay.

4. Sex scenes involving little bunny foo foo. (LOL!!!!)

That kind of stuff. It just makes me insane. It actually causes me to hit a huge embarrassment squick.

[gaedhal.livejournal.com]

"Baby."

Calling an asshole a "man pussy."

M-Preg.

Betas who are as clueless about correct usage, style, and show canon
as the clueless writer. And then the writer THANKS them.

[juteux.livejournal.com]

Other than the obvious like bad spelling/grammar and bad formatting (tiny invisible text, no spaces between paragraphs, etc) my number one pet peeve is rude authors. Authors who will beg for feedback, hold their fic "hostage" until they get a certain number of reviews, and authors who never say thank you for your comment. I won't read the fic if I know the author is an asshole.

[camelhaircoat.livejournal.com]

There are a few fic issues that tend to irk me. Grammar and spelling are major for me, but perhaps that is because I spend my days transcribing and editing so those errors are like thorns that stick in my side, where others might just glance over them and think nothing of them. Though I'm not as grammar-gifted as Buzziecat. I wish I'd had that 9th grade teacher! The there/their, passed/past, through/threw type errors just drive me crazy and I find them extremely difficult to overlook. For me they really detract from the flow of a story. Finicky, I know.

OOCness is another sore subject, and a comment that I will try to leave for an author when a character rings true is "I could actually picture him speaking that line." It's weird to get excited about that, but lately it seems to be more of a rarity. Recently I read a fic with an Ethan/Brian scene that would NEVER have happened based on canon and everyone was commenting about how funny and cute it was and how they could just see it happening. I commented that though it was amusing I couldn't picture it actually ever happening, and got the royal smackown from the author's posse. LOL.

Even more annoying than mere OOCness, though, is the in-name only B/J fic (sorry, but I'm only involved in the QAF fandom so no other examples). I'm sure you all have read those stories too - the only way we know that the main characters are supposed to be Brian and Justin is that one has hazel eyes and one has blue. When the two characters have nothing at all to do with the ones we know I want to scream.

My final (well not really, but the last one I'll bore you with) peeve is the BNF authors who get so full of themselves that they - as Juteux alluded to above - no longer have to respond to comments, hold their fics hostage, constantly post dramatic rants designed to rally their loyal fans to stroke their massive egos and just generally suck the enjoyment out of whatever stories we all loved when they first appeared on the scene and were lesser known and more interested in good fic than in high drama.

[court1429.livejournal.com]

I am in agreement with many of your comments and many commenters' comments. One of my pet peeves, that hasn't been mentioned, is anatomical names being used during sex, e.g., my hard penis this and his anus that. That completely takes me out of the story.

And then there are fics like this one that was just posted on bjfic comm. I had a feeling it would be really bad and I was really right. This is just so far from QAF I don't even know what to say. The only good thing is it takes just a couple minutes to read. not AU, just totally fucked up (http://community.livejournal.com/bjfic/2131862.html?style=mine#cutid1)

[rinmonsterer.livejournal.com]

my biggest pet peeve is commenters encouraging badfic, lol. Then again, even I sometimes read badfic and enjoy it for reasons that weren't intended by the writer. So I guess this is an important part of the fandom ecosystem, too. Oh well. Also: overhyped stories. Trying to figure out why people are literally crazy about fics that are really mediocre, just with some trendy gimmicks mixed in and superficial attempts at philosophy just to be Profound - it breaks my brain.

As for things I can blame the author for, pacing. Bad fics are usually badly paced.
This includes but is not limited to: when a character's development takes huge leaps in the span of 3 sentences that cover about 5 minutes of fic-time. Like... haha, Brian deciding he needs to sell his loft because he bought a dog and it peed on his rug. I know it's potentially logical if you explain the reasoning in between and put it in a broader perspective, but it's written in such a completely hurried, careless way that it makes totally no sense.

Also: telling instead of showing. If someone *tells* me a character is saddened, or crushed, or devastated, I'll snicker. It won't make me feel sympathetic. In fact, it won't make me feel at all.

This doesn't apply to qaf fics, because the attention to background and fleshing out of the story in them isn't overwhelming, but it's abundant in J2 fandom, or maybe just bigbang - PAGES of boring exposition before I get to know the characters and decide if I even care about them. Which I usually don't, after the long exposition that makes me think the author is a big snob. And it's not like I don't want my story to be developed; it's just that some writers seem to think that exposition is made just for the sake of it and it's there because duh, we can't start from the good stuff, can we? The exposition should make the story more interesting, too. It can be entertaining too. Especially in fanfic.

I'm a big snob <3 I'm also kinda sleepy, so that's my excuse for nit-picking and multi-editing tonight.

[damietta.livejournal.com]

It absolutely makes me cringe when I read "OMG, like I just wrote this in twenty minutes, and it is non-betaed and all the mistakes are mine...." in a heading. Does that make you really want to read something that someone didn't care enough about to spend time on doing it correctly? Not me.

I wish I could write so I could create something beautiful to payback all the amazing writers that I've read over the years.

[sevigny7.livejournal.com]

If I listed all of my pet peeves this comment would go on forever. I read the earlier comment questioning your usage of the split infinitive, and have to reply to that. Many years ago it was a fad in certain academic circles to try to force English into Latin constructs, and while written English was forced into these unnatural rules, spoken English stubbornly kept to its Anglo-Saxon roots. Grammarians now are slowly admitting that perhaps the spoken and written English rules should match, and the split infinitive rule is going to go the way of the dinosaur, and good riddance.

This, of course, has nothing to do with my annoyance with all the badfic problems you brought up. If I feel energetic enough, I'll post another comment (read *rant*).

[sandid.livejournal.com]

As a reader there are definitely things that drive me wild. Spelling is one of them. Grammer, not as much. Of course, if it makes no sense at all and is so badly written I can't read it. I don't. I close it and leave.

From viewing these comments, I think writer's are harder on themselves and each other than we readers are.

I enjoy many diverse forms of fan fic and clearly I don't mind stretches in characters. The only form of fan fic that I just don't get is MPREG. My mind just can't wrap around that.

Like everyone else, I smirk when I see Brain instead of Brian. There has also been more than one occasion when I wanted to explain - There - Their - They're or Then and Than.

We all have are/our pet peeves. lol

I've been told that I am too gushy about fics. *shrugs* Maybe, but I would rather be nice and appreciative as a reader. If I think it sucks mud, I don't comment. No sense in being mean. Also, since I'm not a writer, I can't speak to many issues.

My two cents....carry on...............

[turnyourankle.livejournal.com]

i don't know if it bothers me anymore, to be honest. i stay away from stuff that's riddled with errors. i think what bothers me more is the praise they get regardless of the flaws. i don't know if the existence of the fic bothers me because i was once like that, and i got better. i don't know if i would have had people mocked me and shot me down. of course, i've removed all the offensive fic, but it was still there at one point.

i guess stuff that really bothers me are overused tropes. mary sues, honestly. overly emotional men. rape, random death. this stuff i just don't know why people include to begin with. go write angsty original fic in which your characters fall in love with their rapists. but then again, i feel like that's just common sense to be disturbed by these things.

i don't know. i think overall...it's just praise for fic that doesn't deserve it. i'm fairly okay with people doing what they want but that's mostly because i'm in rps; we can't know what characterization is right, everyone perceives what they want to perceive.

then again, this doesn't stop me from frequenting FU_fandom comms in which bad!fic is ridiculed. (btw, i have one for qaf but i've never used it...do you think that's something you'd want to take over? or do you want to contain the rants to your lj?)