let's have a little discussion, shall we?

[amelialourdes]

This morning we're talking about fan fic. It's something that most of us have indulged in. We all have personal preferences when it comes to fic. Here's how I like mine:

• Well-written. I know this sounds simple enough but really it isn't nor do I really think that this is everyone's preference. I saw a "fic" once that was made up of words in no coherent way that people really liked. It went like this:

Heat.
Air.
Body.

Like that but more words and longer. Now this ... is not fan fic. These are words that look like a grocery list. Did everyone hate it? No. In fact, the grocery list was hailed as original. Now I look at it and I think, "That is the most uncreative thing I've ever seen in my life." Someone else looks at it and thinks, "Genius."

• When I say well-written, I mean, I want the sentences to make sense. I want it free of grammatical errors. I want someone to know that it's Justin's "taut" stomach and not his "taught" stomach (see icon). Sometimes, people think that it's asking too much. People argue that "we're not writing college essays" and I say to those people -- if you're lazy enough not to hit a spell check button or not to look up words that you don't know, then don't be surprised if people don't bother reading your fic.

I think it's disrespectful to a reader to be lazy about your writing. It's one thing if you're writing something on a whim that you don't want anyone to take seriously. It's another thing to write something you claim to care about and not even think about looking it over more than once. To say that you're not "writing a college essay" implies that you don't care about what you're writing so why do you think anyone else should care?

I don't need it to be written like a novel. But I need to know that not every sentence is a fragment, that there are descriptions that depict what they're doing rather than all dialogue that's showing me nothing. It's all very basic stuff for an author.

EPITHETS.

DON'T USE THEM.

"The blond said" or "the auburn-haired man said" (last one stolen from a bad fic). No, I'm sorry. There is nothing wrong with using their names. If his name is Brian, use Brian. If it's Bob, use Bob. No, it doesn't not get "boring" or repetitive using their names. In fact, I prefer it because I visualize that character. I don't need to know the color of his hair. I already know it. If it was a physical description before, I don't need it repeated because I already know he's blond. And if it's a he then it's "blond" with no "E."

It is not boring using their names. Trust me. Believe me. I will not get them confused if you're spacing this out correctly.

• I need realism and I need the characters I'm familiar with to remain the canon characters that I know them to be. Brian and Justin will not call each other pet names. They will not say "baby" or "honey" or whatever cutesy term of affection you may associate with in your own life. Brian and Justin are not your Mary Sues. Do not live your life with your perspective through them.

I also believe in character development. Justin in S1 is not the Justin of S5. He is not stalking Brian all the way up to S5. He is not bouncing around or "giggling" like the teenage boy he once was. Let him grow up.

I believe Brian is a little more of a tricky subject. I know he will never be romantic or mushy. He will never say "baby" when talking to Justin. But I believe his character should always be there -- snarky, an asshole (not just a cute one but he's a dick too), loyal, hard-working, etc. Those characteristics should be there.

It's important to understand their dynamic as a couple. It retains the characters, continues their story from the show, and that's important to me. I want the show to live on through someone else's perspective but with the characters I remember.

Realism. Be realistic -- research, research, research. Research settings, research movies you're basing a story on, research the way that gay men have sex if that's what you're doing. RESEARCH.

• Format. Especially for the web. Don't bunch the sentences up together in one long paragraph. Use spaces. Separate dialogue for me or one character from another. Format's important because this is the internet and you have an unlimited use of space. Make it legible.

But like I said, everyone has their preferences. These are mine. I only used Brian and Justin as an example because I know people here or who read this are familiar with them. I think that I'm particularly interested in hearing from people who read everything. By that, I mean, fic where there are a lot of misspellings, sentence errors, canon errors -- is it the story that interests you the most? Do you ignore these things? Do you get past a poorly written sentence and only pay attention to the idea of a story?

Feel free to argue away in here.

Comments

[cindergal.livejournal.com]

You'll get no argument from me. :-) See my fanfic pet peeves tag. I mean, there's such a thing as a bullet-proof kink, I suppose, and I have read some h/c that was not very well-written because I had run out of all the good stuff. But that's only when I'm desperate.

And you forgot to mention epithets. ;-) There is a writer in one of my fandoms who is a good writer except for the fact that she uses epithets excessively, and it's gotten to the point where I can't get past it. It's sad, because she writes long, plotty stuff that I would otherwise really enjoy. But 'the blonde,' etc. in pretty much every paragraph just drives me insane.

I must confess that I did write one of those fanfics with just words once. But it was for that 10 word fic meme so that doesn't count. ;-p

[merkuria.livejournal.com]

Oh dear, next thing you'll be asking for the stars and the moon, greedy you.

What I meant was: WORD.

[amelialourdes.livejournal.com]

Better response to come but for now -- LET ME ADD EPITHETS.

[suzvoy.livejournal.com]

I agree with all of this!

[rainbow1907.livejournal.com]

Epiphets drive me mad and the same goes for grammatical errors... not the occasional ones, they happen to most people, but it gets enough very fast.

[shadownyc.livejournal.com]

Feel free to argue away in here.

When I find something to argue with, I'll let you know.

I do find it difficult to read an AU where the writer creates an unrecognizable character from the one developed in canon. An AU, including future!fics, should extend the character to another place and/or time, not an alternate personality.

I actually respect people who put OOC in warnings. If I try to read the fic after seeing that, it's my own choice and I don't fall into it by accident.

I'm a "Warnings" addict. I read those first as I have always steered away from death!fic and most rape!fics. I would have to "know" and trust the author to even think about entering one of those. The worst is to go in unaware and discover a main character death.

Epithets -- OY!!! -- I've only added "Sunshine" or "Honey" when demonstrating Brian's snarky attitude in a given moment.

[bigboobedcanuck.livejournal.com]

We are totally on the same page, as per usual.

[reeface.livejournal.com]

PREACH IT, SISTAH.

[rhiannonhero.livejournal.com]

I love that icon!

[rhiannonhero.livejournal.com]

Well, I agree! Imagine that! :P

I think the one way that I probably differ from a lot of people is that I'm not a fan of the warnings. Because of peer pressure I will always warn for rape fic, and sometimes for dubcon, and sometimes for a death in the main pairing only (any other character is fair game for a warning free death). Usually, though, I don't warn if at all possible, and I appreciate that at AO3 they give the option "Author Chooses Not to Use Archive Warnings". And I have real issues with people labeling kinks with a warning, even though I've done it myself in the past. Going forward instead of using the word "warning" I might do something like say: Contains: DubCon Instead of calling it a warning, like it is a bad thing.

Fic as she is wrote

[fansee.livejournal.com]

No point in me responding. I agree with you 110%. Grammatical errors, out of canon character, factual mistakes: they all pull me right out of the narrative. If it happens once or twice, and your plot has me by the throat, I may keep reading. More than once or twice and there's no plot that's held me yet. Sorry. FanSee

[noteverything17.livejournal.com]

I love when people tell us WHAT they like in what they read. I used to write a LOT of QaF drabbles and I always, always liked to know what *exactly* worked for readers and even more so, what didn't. That helps writers so much and yet it seems like so many people just write whatever pops into their heads, JUST LIKE it pops into their heads and it sucks. A lot.

Grammar and syntax and correct spelling and usage and all that is a given for ANYTHING I read. Period. I don't care if it's a drabble or a novel, get the basics right, or I won't be reading it.

[ipitydaf00l.livejournal.com]

I saw a link to this post in another journal, so I apologize in advance for taking a moment to jump into this post. (I should state that everyone is entitled to their opinion on what I'm about to say, but I may not respond to everyone. Nor am I a grammar goddess...I abuse commas and periods.)

First, these two lines:

1.) I need realism and I need the characters I'm familiar with to remain the canon characters that I know them to be.

2.) I want the show to live on through someone else's perspective but with the characters I remember.

These two lines grab me and make me want to shout out, "THIS!!" To the point that people walking down the street will look my way like I'm some crazy lady, but that's something that not everyone understands.

I used to read anything and everything in QAF. Now? I don't read anything from QAF. Yes, there's times I miss it, but not enough to go through what I had before.

The thing is some authors do not understand why we, as readers, get attached to stories. Why we find ourselves emotionally involved in them and when those stories reach that point where it goes past our point of belief then suddenly cries of "Don't like; don't read!" are shouted at us. The second we mention anything that varies from complete and utter ego-stroking comments.

No, just because we mentioned something did not mean that we suddenly hated the author. It did not mean that we suddenly thought their fic should be found on places like weepingcock or fanficrants. It's just that we wanted them to know that they were starting to walk a very fine line of changing their work into MarySue!ville complete with Gary!Sue. The characters that I grew to love no longer resemble the characters they are based on.

Some authors generally want to have feedback from their readers whether it's good or bad. I've never believed in flaming an author, but if I write you a serious comment that is in no way hateful....please, PLEASE for the love of God, don't cry out "I QUIT!", make idle threats, make hateful comments to me, etc. Take a moment to think seriously about what I said to you.

As readers we are taking time out of our busy lives to read the fanfiction that is posted. If we take even more of that time to comment to you it's because we want you to know how we feel, and sadly, it may not always be "OMG, I <3 YOU!"

I think it's reactions like that which ruins fanfic for me. I can deal with errors to an extent, but if I take time out of my life to comment to an author or possibly point another where they can go to get a beta and they react like that? Then I've lost all respect for that author and the rose colored glasses I may have been reading the fanfic with before are suddenly off. I start looking at the story more critically than I ever would have before.

*smacks forehead* I'm not even sure why I'm bothering to comment on this subject...it's art isn't it? D:

[court1429.livejournal.com]

it's art isn't it?

Don't forget FREE art... ;P

Of course I agree with everything you've said. Additionally, I learned something. I didn't know epithet was also benign description; I always thought it was only hateful railing and name-calling. So, thanks!

[ipitydaf00l.livejournal.com]

I still have various funny quotes that sort of makes that whole wank argument by the same person seem very hypocritical. ;)

[amelialourdes.livejournal.com]

Cannot wait to browse through the fic pet peeves tag! I have those moments too where I just get desperate and try to give fic that other people like a chance. And by "other people" I mean people whose opinions I do not agree with and I always regret doing that.

Added epithets! Isn't that terrible? You want to enjoy it but then it's ruined by words that are not the character's names and you get sad. :(( The occasional mention I'll allow it but every other paragraph I'd check out.

10 word fic. Totally doesn't count. *nod*

[amelialourdes.livejournal.com]

You'd think that I was asking for the moon these days. So unreasonable!

Wordy McWord. \o/

[amelialourdes.livejournal.com]

\o/!

[amelialourdes.livejournal.com]

Absolutely! I can definitely understand the occasional slip-up. It's obvious when it's just a mistake but if it's just throughout then I've checked out of there.

[amelialourdes.livejournal.com]

Hee!

Yes, EXACTLY. Even in an AU there shouldn't be a change in that person's character. They should be recognizable as the characters we love including the same mannerisms and character traits that make them memorable. It shouldn't be OOC and people shouldn't switch personalities with the other character. Nope.

Yeah, if there are warnings there then you know what you're getting into and you can't really complain about it. But passing off a character as that character when they're not just proves to me that you don't understand that character.

I would definitely require a warning for death fic. I'm not big on warnings but that would be a big one and I appreciate that they tell me about it in advance. Then I know to prepare myself or avoid it completely.

Definitely canon Brian used those "terms of affection" when he was being a smart ass and not in a serious way at all. I understand! :D

[amelialourdes.livejournal.com]

Well, I am just so glad that we are! :D

[amelialourdes.livejournal.com]

PREACH, PREACH.

*adds Emmett's praise Jesus dance here*

[amelialourdes.livejournal.com]

I AM SHOCKED. :D

Right, I agree. Warning someone does imply that what you've written there is wrong or unnatural in some way when it isn't. I think maybe "contains" works a lot better so someone knows what's in there. But saying that it's a "warning" is a bit much. I'd like to know if Reid is dead and stays dead. That's a major character death that I'd rather avoid. That's the only circumstance I can think of where I feel like I need one.

[amelialourdes.livejournal.com]

Yay! I completely agree. It has to move along, there has to be some semblance of sense, and not rife with errors. You'd think that we were asking for the moon.

[amelialourdes.livejournal.com]

That's good to know! On the other hand, like I've seen A LOT of the past few years, there are particular authors that don't appreciate criticism even if it's constructive. People just take it too personally so I've never bothered to say anything to anyone who doesn't look receptive to accepting any help. They have their readers who can move past those errors. The reason I keep going back to them is because I do want to take a red pen to their entries and can't help looking. But that's my own fault and I'd never mock them or reprimand them openly in an entry like this one.