all right, let's sway toward other things for a hot minute.

[amelialourdes]

I'm feeling better about yesterday's Lure thanks to the wonderful members of lure_atwt. Stories, videos, gifs? They all work.

Now that there's a bit of a Lure break until Thursday, let's discuss this brand spanking new CowLip interview that has randomly popped up out of nowhere. Now that I've had a little time to digest it all, I can happily say, what are they on and can I have some of it?

What is this "of course Brian and Justin are together"? There was never an of course. I think that they made a very strong effort for there not to be an of course. I remember the talk at the convention. Who was there? Postoff? There was quite the ruckus there. I remember the lack of communication between various writers and the creators of the show and the cast. I remember the joy I felt when I heard that Brian and Justin were getting married and it wasn't because I thought that their marriage would bond them together forever. I already felt like they were together forever but at least we'd get to see them have a happy ending, see them together to the end. Is that what happened? No.

I remember how pissed off I was to see Justin just disappearing like that and Brian bouncing around like a club boy, giving me the impression that -- no -- he never grew up and there he is dancing without Justin.

In case you need quotes from 2005 from both CowLip and Postoff, you can find it here in gaedhal's journal.

I mean, it's nice for them to think that that was their intention but it didn't seem like it was then. It's what they think it is now and personally, I just think that they're trying to appease people five years later. Most old fandom doesn't care about this now but they cared about it then and people who only watched through DVDs and caught up with the show later will probably accept these answers.

Sooooooooooooooooo sigh.

Comments

[fraserette.livejournal.com]

All the more reason a reunion needs to be done to establish this..UGH.

Honestly, I was quite surprised at how accurately they remembered episodes and characters!

[friday82.livejournal.com]

I mean, it's nice for them to think that that was their intention but it didn't seem like it was then. It's what they think it is now and personally, I just think that they're trying to appease people five years later.
Exactly my thoughts. And if that had been their intention, why didn't they choose to portray it like that? I also vaguely remember the older statements. Where does this change of heart come from? I admit, the new interview doesn't change my very negative view of S5 and its ending...

[severina2001.livejournal.com]

I've never believed in authorial intent (sp?). I don't care what the writer/creator of a movie/TV series/book *intends* for the writer/watcher to believe or see. I care about what is actually on the page or screen... what I *do* see. Good intentions don't mean a hell of a lot.

Having said that... I always *loved* the finale, and I was a weekly obsessive watcher of the show [as you know. :)] I've said from the beginning that it wouldn't matter to me if Cowlip or the writers said "B/J are clearly together 4evah!" or if they said "B/J are clearly broken up, you dumbass" -- what matters is what is on the screen, what *I* saw, authorial intent be damned.

And what I saw (a committed B/J who had *finally* put the bullshit aside, a promise to see each other, rings being kept, an emotionally open Brian) is clearly different from what others saw (a breakup, a return to the club scene). *shrugs* I don't really GET how anybody saw it that second way, but ultimately it doesn't matter. What I got from the ending was ridiculously satisfying (and paved the way for much fanfic, which is always a win!)

So it was nice to see the interview and read their comments and all, but it doesn't really change much for me. I thought it was just kinda nice to see that they were open to the interview at all. :)

[damietta.livejournal.com]

I'm sure the person who interviewed Cowlip thought they were doing something for the fandom. So I don't fault her at all.

But, even five years later I can conjure up the feelings of utter disdain they had for the fandom and the almost glee they had with the final episode. So, for them to come back five years later with a completely different explanation, well, pardon me, but fuck off Cow and Lip. I'll never watch anything you do. (And, just what have you been doing?)

Thank, God, for the wonderful fanfiction that came out of the series.

[sodoesrachael.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with everything you've said here. I read that whole interview with an o.O face. Sure, five years later they can say whatever they want about how they wanted it "perceived." Ugh.

Also, I approve of your Lure obsession, though I don't watch that show. But I've read some Lure fic and it's awesome. And I've seen clips of ATWT on YouTube, and I like Luke/Reid much better than Luke/Noah. :)

[lady-jane.livejournal.com]

Revisionist history is a beautiful thing.

It's pretty self-serving, especially considering how it just doesn't jibe with the contradictions from the writers' position five years ago.

Would anyone expect CL to say, Yeah, Hal sucks and he said some things that if we admit they're true would make us look like we're trying to gloss over where we were coming from five years ago? I mean, what about when Postoff said at the convention that they wrote Justin's "Brian's never lied to me or treated me wrong" speech to "tweak" (I'll never forget that word) Randy? Postoff outright said that certain parts of S5 were written specifically because they were unhappy with the actors. Like when he said how if the creators were pissed at the actors, they suddenly wouldn't be in an episode. But this:

I can assure you that there was nothing sour about our relationship with anyone in the cast. We all had our moments, no doubt, living and working under constant pressure. But as with any family, you may argue at times or have a disagreement and then you make up

So now, five years later, they've gotten past their petty upsets. But their having "made up" NOW doesn't affect where the show was coming from five years ago, when they wrote from a perspective of "constant pressure" and "disagreement" which Postoff directly admitted affected the writing and the way characters were handled. I'm not really surprised that there are so many people happy to ignore all of the evidence to the contrary of what that interview relates now. They're hearing what they've really wanted to all along. Of course no one's going to question any of this.

Lastly, I don't really want to harp on this, but has this interview showed up ANYWHERE besides this single fan site for this specific audience?

As I've said, I really think that a lot of the motivation for this interview is to convince fans to buy DVDs, especially S5 which has been roundly rejected by a lot of them. Happy fans are spending fans.

Personally, I don't buy it.

[sakesushimaki.livejournal.com]

I remember how pissed off I was to see Justin just disappearing like that and Brian bouncing around like a club boy, giving me the impression that -- no -- he never grew up and there he is dancing without Justin.
THIS. Exactly this is what I feared they were showing me.

And even though I regard the ending as a "happy" ending the more and more time goes by, I still can't quite share the celebratory vibe most people seem to get from that very last scene. I remember that it broke my heart seeing Brian up on that platform alone.

people who only watched through DVDs and caught up with the show later will probably accept these answers
I feel like a total sub-fan now. :D I never really read any interviews with CowLip before, so that's why I embraced this one now.

So, I figure that makes me a very naive sub-fan? :D

[ineedsafe.livejournal.com]

I remember how pissed off I was to see Justin just disappearing like that and Brian bouncing around like a club boy, giving me the impression that -- no -- he never grew up and there he is dancing without Justin.
Yep, that was my initial reaction right there just a month ago. I never got the "of course Brian and Justin are together" vibe from watching those last scenes. The "of course" actually sounded condescending to me, like I'm so stupid for ever thinking they would go their separate ways but hello they didn't give me much to go on by with how they chose to end it. Gosh there go all my attempts at trying to block out the end or giving it my own twist. I was doing so well.

I think it's sort of a blessing that I got into this show (well more like B/J) way after it ended because I'll probably forever be ignorant of majority of the BTS ongoings. Wow at that 06 discussion from that link you provided. It's a little disheartening to hear about these things but sometimes I can't help but be curious. I can see how tension BTS mirrored on screen S4/S5 considering it was so clear, at least in my opinion, the show jumped shark by then. I suppose I'll stay content with watching B/J scenes from S1-S3.